How do out-of-range party members affect loot scaling? - Guild Wars Forums

jray14 · Jul 09, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Based on the following results from some Feathered Avicara scalp runs, it seems that human party members, even when outside the radar, increase drop rates. Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but it's new to me! Or maybe it's just coincidence.

Clearing Mineral Springs in NM:
- me + 3 heroes + 4 henches -> 3 scalps
- me + 3 heroes + 4 henches -> 4 scalps
- me + 3 heroes + 4 henches -> 6 scalps
- me + 3 heroes -> 3 scalps
- me + 3 heroes + 2 human players parked at entrance -> 11 scalps (plus another scalp assigned to one of the other humans when near battle)

Plus it seemed like I got a LOT more purple & gold drops when the two humans were in the party.

So should I be in the habit of running GWx2 on both of my computers and parking 3 of my alt accounts with me wherever I go? Obviously that'd be best if I bothered to make them follow me around, but it looks like I might get the same benefit just from having them in the party.

IronSheik · Jul 09, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

This is the same concept as leechers for raptors.

I've never noticed a difference TBH, I cleared out Mineral Spring with me and 3 heroes, got 3 scalps

Did it again, got 14, all luck.

EDIT

I think of it this way

I can either spend 10 minutes getting 7 people who leave after 1-3 runs, or I can just farm and get more drops from not sitting there.

Silvia Shadowback · Jul 09, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Like iron said i have never noticed a difference when i tried bring leechers on a raptor farm.

Jade · Jul 09, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

So.... you did 5 runs? Not enough data to be statistically relevant. If You want to make a go at it, you'd have to do more like 1000 or even 10,000 runs. With each party configuration. 1000 runs with you + 3 heroes + 4 Henchies. 1000 runs with you + 3 Heroes. 1000 runs with you + 7 real leechers. Etc, etc. Basically you can't really draw a conclusion based on just a few runs, you need to do many many many runs in order for it to be even close to accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

This is the same concept as leechers for raptors.

I've never noticed a difference TBH, I cleared out Mineral Spring with me and 3 heroes, got 3 scalps

Did it again, got 14, all luck.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 09, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

majikmajikmajik · Jul 09, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

i used to farm greens with my h/h using them to bring it down to like 15% then flaggin them off map to kill the boss solo and i used to get more drops that way, but that was before nightfall and i think they changed how it works since then.

miskav · Jul 09, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Seems random for me, I just bring H/H if I solofarm something in order to clear mobs.

Painbringer · Jul 09, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

You are turning off the hide the loot portion of the code since there is less hench/hero spots to figure into the formula. Full party of eight humans and you will get the best drops available. Since all the spots are filled with human. The less human people in a party the less drops. Becuase they are claimed by hench. Also calculated is when you reduce the party size drops increase but it is a lesser extent then a party of 8 humans since it bases off of 8 spots.

Thats my guess at least key word guess

What loot you get is a percent scale sorta like the old D&D random loot generator. (tables apon tables all by percents that narrow down the search to the exact item dropped)

jray14 · Jul 09, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Actually, even with my small amount of data, the mean difference of 4 drops vs. 11 drops has a p-value of 0.0214 (i.e., only a 2% chance of so dramatic a difference occuring by chance alone). I know I could have done some more runs to be more sure, but I was too lazy and just wanted to see if someone already knew the answer

. I'll make another run tonight and let you know what happens.

To clarify my question: What happens when there are humans in a party off the radar for a kill?

1. The drop code acts as if they aren't even in the party.

2. The drop code includes them in the party count, but the drops are randomly assigned only among the players within radar.

3. Something else?

IronSheik · Jul 09, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Since heroes and henchmen get drops, wouldn't every solo farmer take them along and just flag them at start? Have you tried flagging your heroes at start and not humans?

Humans are the same as heroes, except the human will get the heroes drop instead if you were to replace them.

Quaker · Jul 09, 2009, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

Based on the following results from some Feathered Avicara scalp runs, it seems that human party members, even when outside the radar, increase drop rates......Plus it seemed like I got a LOT more purple & gold drops when the two humans were in the party.

As has been said, this was just a matter of luck. For one thing, loot scaling is based upon the number of characters in the party - it doesn't matter whether they are human or not, and it doesn't matter whether or not they are greyed out.
Loot "allocation" - that is, who gets the drop - is affected by being greyed out, but not affected by human/non-human.

I've done Raptor runs with and without leechers - human and not - and have noticed no overall change in the amount of good drops. You can't base such a conclusion on just a few runs.

Quote:

So should I be in the habit of running GWx2 on both of my computers and parking 3 of my alt accounts with me wherever I go? Obviously that'd be best if I bothered to make them follow me around, but it looks like I might get the same benefit just from having them in the party.

The people who are greyed out don't get drops assigned and it doesn't matter whether they are human or not.
Btw, most of the good stuff (golds, greens, purples, tomes) is not affected by loot scaling.

jray14 · Jul 09, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Funny you ask because I did try flagging away hero/hench (once) and got the green I was after on like the 4th try, as opposed to the usual scenario when my HH hang out with me and I get a green like once a month. Yeah, probably just weird luck, perhaps like my Mineral Springs thing, but enough to warrant suspicion. But I also wasn't sure whether humans and HH were treated similarly regarding radar range. It's a reasonable conjecture, but I've been surprised before by some of the loot logic, and GW has other oddities like RoJ not causing AoE scatter until recently.

And for all I know every solo farmer DOES take HH along and flag them. I've never asked. And I'm guessing you're being sarcastic about the Rata Sum leechers? If so, then what is that leeching thing for if it doesn't increase the farmer's drops? Do the leechers pay them a service fee?

EDIT: I know that solo farming still increases green drop rate by 8x compared to full HH play. But I guess I was wondering whether full HH play flagging them all away might actually increase green drop rate to 64x (i.e., as if I'm 8 solo farmers all by myself). It's still a ridiculously small number, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Since heroes and henchmen get drops, wouldn't every solo farmer take them along and just flag them at start? Have you tried flagging your heroes at start and not humans?

Humans are the same as heroes, except the human will get the heroes drop instead if you were to replace them.

IronSheik · Jul 09, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

Funny you ask because I did try flagging away hero/hench (once) and got the green I was after on like the 4th try, as opposed to the usual scenario when my HH hang out with me and I get a green like once a month. Yeah, probably just weird luck, perhaps like my Mineral Springs thing, but enough to warrant suspicion. But I also wasn't sure whether humans and HH were treated similarly regarding radar range. It's a reasonable conjecture, but I've been surprised before by some of the loot logic, and GW has other oddities like RoJ not causing AoE scatter until recently.

If they aren't are radar, it's the same drop rate of solo farming, so killing the boss with all 8 in radar decreases your chance from 1/1 (Assuming it drops 100% of time) to 1/8.

Again, provided the item isn't affected by loot scaling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

And for all I know every solo farmer DOES take HH along and flag them. I've never asked. And I'm guessing you're being sarcastic about the Rata Sum leechers? If so, then what is that leeching thing for if it doesn't increase the farmer's drops? Do the leechers pay them a service fee?

Because people think it increases drops, while there is no proof it does or doesn't besides the fact that drops don't increase as much as people think they do, if they do at all (No)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

EDIT: I know that solo farming still increases green drop rate by 8x compared to full HH play. But I guess I was wondering whether full HH play flagging them all away might actually increase green drop rate to 64x (i.e., as if I'm 8 solo farmers all by myself). It's still a ridiculously small number, lol.

Don't you wish.

Painbringer · Jul 09, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

Funny you ask because I did try flagging away hero/hench (once) and got the green I was after on like the 4th try, as opposed to the usual scenario when my HH hang out with me and I get a green like once a month.

This is a well known farming method. You kill the sorrounding foes and leave the boss alone (or even get the boss low on health) and then flag everone away so you can solo him. Since Green is not effected by loot scaling it will drop more frequantly. Try this on a special weekend for greens on and you will have a butt load of greens in your pack.

jray14 · Jul 09, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Ok, I did two more runs: 10 scalps with heroes + a couple leechers, 3 scalps with just the heroes. WTH. Now there is only a 0.1% chance of this happening by sheer chance according to the p-value from a t test. Either something's up or I just have bizarre luck with Avicara. Maybe the code for collectable drops in particular has special consideration just for party size?

I have all the scalps I need now, so I'm retiring from this until the next Nicholas. Anyone wanna give a shot at either reproducing or refuting my results, go for it! To help keep things unbiased, make sure you decide in advance whether you're gonna post your results, not based on whether they turn out to be interesting or not.

EDIT: And yes, I'm counting only the scalps assigned to me, not the handful assigned to the leechers.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jul 09, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Talus Chute outside droks, solo it and you will get 2-5 scalps per run off of 2-3 groups. Braves love to drop scalps.

Jul 09, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09	#1
jray14 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC, USA Guild: Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]	How do out-of-range party members affect loot scaling? Based on the following results from some Feathered Avicara scalp runs, it seems that human party members, even when outside the radar, increase drop rates. Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but it's new to me! Or maybe it's just coincidence. Clearing Mineral Springs in NM: - me + 3 heroes + 4 henches -> 3 scalps - me + 3 heroes + 4 henches -> 4 scalps - me + 3 heroes + 4 henches -> 6 scalps - me + 3 heroes -> 3 scalps - me + 3 heroes + 2 human players parked at entrance -> 11 scalps (plus another scalp assigned to one of the other humans when near battle) Plus it seemed like I got a LOT more purple & gold drops when the two humans were in the party. So should I be in the habit of running GWx2 on both of my computers and parking 3 of my alt accounts with me wherever I go? Obviously that'd be best if I bothered to make them follow me around, but it looks like I might get the same benefit just from having them in the party.

Jul 09, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36	#2
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	This is the same concept as leechers for raptors. I've never noticed a difference TBH, I cleared out Mineral Spring with me and 3 heroes, got 3 scalps Did it again, got 14, all luck. EDIT I think of it this way I can either spend 10 minutes getting 7 people who leave after 1-3 runs, or I can just farm and get more drops from not sitting there. Last edited by IronSheik; Jul 09, 2009 at 05:26 PM // 17:26..

Jul 09, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59	#3
Silvia Shadowback Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: Sleeping at Worlds [End] Profession: N/Mo	Like iron said i have never noticed a difference when i tried bring leechers on a raptor farm.

Jul 09, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58	#5
Shayne Hawke Departed from Tyria Join Date: May 2007 Guild: Clan Dethryche [dth] Profession: R/	Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Jul 09, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58	#6
majikmajikmajik Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SATown~Tx Guild: Guild Hopper! Profession: R/	i used to farm greens with my h/h using them to bring it down to like 15% then flaggin them off map to kill the boss solo and i used to get more drops that way, but that was before nightfall and i think they changed how it works since then.

Jul 09, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19	#7
miskav Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: None Profession: Mo/	Seems random for me, I just bring H/H if I solofarm something in order to clear mobs.

Jul 09, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49	#8
Painbringer Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Minnesota Guild: Black Widows of Death Profession: W/Mo	You are turning off the hide the loot portion of the code since there is less hench/hero spots to figure into the formula. Full party of eight humans and you will get the best drops available. Since all the spots are filled with human. The less human people in a party the less drops. Becuase they are claimed by hench. Also calculated is when you reduce the party size drops increase but it is a lesser extent then a party of 8 humans since it bases off of 8 spots. Thats my guess at least key word guess What loot you get is a percent scale sorta like the old D&D random loot generator. (tables apon tables all by percents that narrow down the search to the exact item dropped)

Jul 09, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43	#9
jray14 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC, USA Guild: Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]	Actually, even with my small amount of data, the mean difference of 4 drops vs. 11 drops has a p-value of 0.0214 (i.e., only a 2% chance of so dramatic a difference occuring by chance alone). I know I could have done some more runs to be more sure, but I was too lazy and just wanted to see if someone already knew the answer . I'll make another run tonight and let you know what happens. To clarify my question: What happens when there are humans in a party off the radar for a kill? 1. The drop code acts as if they aren't even in the party. 2. The drop code includes them in the party count, but the drops are randomly assigned only among the players within radar. 3. Something else?

Jul 09, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46	#10
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	Since heroes and henchmen get drops, wouldn't every solo farmer take them along and just flag them at start? Have you tried flagging your heroes at start and not humans? Humans are the same as heroes, except the human will get the heroes drop instead if you were to replace them.

Jul 09, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14	#15
jray14 Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC, USA Guild: Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]	Ok, I did two more runs: 10 scalps with heroes + a couple leechers, 3 scalps with just the heroes. WTH. Now there is only a 0.1% chance of this happening by sheer chance according to the p-value from a t test. Either something's up or I just have bizarre luck with Avicara. Maybe the code for collectable drops in particular has special consideration just for party size? I have all the scalps I need now, so I'm retiring from this until the next Nicholas. Anyone wanna give a shot at either reproducing or refuting my results, go for it! To help keep things unbiased, make sure you decide in advance whether you're gonna post your results, not based on whether they turn out to be interesting or not. EDIT: And yes, I'm counting only the scalps assigned to me, not the handful assigned to the leechers.

Jul 09, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27	#16
HuntMaster Avatar Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Around Guild: Pillar's of Earth [ROCK] Profession: W/	Talus Chute outside droks, solo it and you will get 2-5 scalps per run off of 2-3 groups. Braves love to drop scalps.